Look, we have made the Leap!

Happy New (Leap) Year, Readers and Blog-friends! May your quotidian life be as you desire it to be. What are your plans for that extra day we have this year?

And Happy Birthday to the modern world’s most influential 25-year old – TCP/ IP.

A full switchover to this open-architecture protocol, which enables the internet as we know it, was completed on January 1, 1983. All that we take for granted now – surfing, searching, blogging, e-commerce on the internet, of course – would not have come to pass without this important landmark. The world owes a lot to engineers! Of course, I would say it, would I not?

48 Replies to “Look, we have made the Leap!”

  1. Shefaly:

    //The world owes a lot to engineers! Of course, I would say it, would I not?//

    It does! You would! And no one in their right mind would grudge you a bit of legitimate trumpet blowing.

    It’s the bathos that follows most triumphs in BE, BTech etc. — the MBA — that is a real waste of genuine talent. I laud the honourable exceptions who go beyond that to do things like…umm…a PhD (Cantab) πŸ™‚

    The internet as we know it was created by bright engineers, mathematicians, logicians etc. The several diabolic uses to which it is put in everyday life are largely a legerdemain of the managers (read ‘manipulators’) πŸ™‚

    PS: I hope you notice that I have decided to err on the side of excess in the matter of using smileys πŸ™‚

  2. Shefaly:

    //The world owes a lot to engineers! Of course, I would say it, would I not?//

    It does! You would! And no one in their right mind would grudge you a bit of legitimate trumpet blowing.

    It’s the bathos that follows most triumphs in BE, BTech etc. — the MBA — that is a real waste of genuine talent. I laud the honourable exceptions who go beyond that to do things like…umm…a PhD (Cantab) πŸ™‚

    The internet as we know it was created by bright engineers, mathematicians, logicians etc. The several diabolic uses to which it is put in everyday life are largely a legerdemain of the managers (read ‘manipulators’) πŸ™‚

    PS: I hope you notice that I have decided to err on the side of excess in the matter of using smileys πŸ™‚

  3. Vivek:
    The Internet was the creation of DARPA, the famous US agency for Defence research (as you probably know).
    Shefaly:
    I have no idea, though, what TCP/IP does, except that I have seen the option in ‘Internet Connect’ on my Mac. You might be surprised, but there are people that know more about fool parts than tool parts.

  4. Vivek:
    The Internet was the creation of DARPA, the famous US agency for Defence research (as you probably know).
    Shefaly:
    I have no idea, though, what TCP/IP does, except that I have seen the option in ‘Internet Connect’ on my Mac. You might be surprised, but there are people that know more about fool parts than tool parts.

  5. Rambodoc:

    I know about DARPA. The point I was seeking to make is that of all the creative work involved in the achievement, the role of managers must have been the last and the least.

  6. Rambodoc:

    I know about DARPA. The point I was seeking to make is that of all the creative work involved in the achievement, the role of managers must have been the last and the least.

  7. @ Rambler: Thanks and the same to you. We dream because somewhere we have it inside us to make them come true, no?

    @ Vivek: Thanks for your note. I am an MBA too and smileys or none, I can say categorically that the value – for shareholders, for customers and for the wider community in the form of additional jobs – that I created in my ‘management’ roles far exceeds anything I may do as an ‘academic’ which is why I am not going down that path. The roles of engineers and business people are synergistic and one is not much use without the other. Of course, I comment on all this because I have done all this – but I would not presume to comment, say, on the work that my b-i-l did in Bhabha Atomic Research Centre or what Rambodoc does in his profession.

    @ Nita: Thanks. If I can muster enough patience to upload just enough photos and write about the week, I shall write about it here. I need to look up WP forums for help. There must be an easier way to edit photos…

    @ AD: Thanks and the same to you. That header has been there a while and it is a picture from April 2003. It was taken on the beach, on Cardigan Bay in North Wales. πŸ™‚

    @ Amit: Thanks and the same to you!

    @ Ruhi: Thanks and of course, the protocol existed a long while before. Its utility was multiplied manifold by the broader rolling-out.

    @ Rambodoc: It is a good thing that people do not have to know what TCP/ IP does (remember my earlier and complicated post on inter-disciplinary dialogue?) but it suffices to say that without it, the web would not exist.

  8. @ Rambler: Thanks and the same to you. We dream because somewhere we have it inside us to make them come true, no?

    @ Vivek: Thanks for your note. I am an MBA too and smileys or none, I can say categorically that the value – for shareholders, for customers and for the wider community in the form of additional jobs – that I created in my ‘management’ roles far exceeds anything I may do as an ‘academic’ which is why I am not going down that path. The roles of engineers and business people are synergistic and one is not much use without the other. Of course, I comment on all this because I have done all this – but I would not presume to comment, say, on the work that my b-i-l did in Bhabha Atomic Research Centre or what Rambodoc does in his profession.

    @ Nita: Thanks. If I can muster enough patience to upload just enough photos and write about the week, I shall write about it here. I need to look up WP forums for help. There must be an easier way to edit photos…

    @ AD: Thanks and the same to you. That header has been there a while and it is a picture from April 2003. It was taken on the beach, on Cardigan Bay in North Wales. πŸ™‚

    @ Amit: Thanks and the same to you!

    @ Ruhi: Thanks and of course, the protocol existed a long while before. Its utility was multiplied manifold by the broader rolling-out.

    @ Rambodoc: It is a good thing that people do not have to know what TCP/ IP does (remember my earlier and complicated post on inter-disciplinary dialogue?) but it suffices to say that without it, the web would not exist.

  9. Shefaly:

    //The roles of engineers and business people are synergistic and one is not much use without the other.//

    A brave statement considering that ‘engineers’ in one form or another have been around almost since the beginning of civilisation and played an important part in its progress, without a significant need for managers; whereas professional managers started appearing in the business arena with the Industrial Revolution, and became really important only in the post-industrial age, when the compulsions arising form surplus production began to be seriously felt and demanded occasionally spurious solutions.

    //…but I would not presume to comment…//

    TouchΓ©! My comments are based on experiences of working with members of both tribes. And as an architect and a planner, I am myself guilty of association with both universes.

  10. Shefaly:

    //The roles of engineers and business people are synergistic and one is not much use without the other.//

    A brave statement considering that ‘engineers’ in one form or another have been around almost since the beginning of civilisation and played an important part in its progress, without a significant need for managers; whereas professional managers started appearing in the business arena with the Industrial Revolution, and became really important only in the post-industrial age, when the compulsions arising form surplus production began to be seriously felt and demanded occasionally spurious solutions.

    //…but I would not presume to comment…//

    TouchΓ©! My comments are based on experiences of working with members of both tribes. And as an architect and a planner, I am myself guilty of association with both universes.

  11. There must be an easier way to edit photos…
    If you’re still sweet on google, I’ve had no complaints (and positive experience) with Picasa and embedding the album in the blog post. Not sure if it’ll work in WP or not. πŸ™‚

  12. There must be an easier way to edit photos…
    If you’re still sweet on google, I’ve had no complaints (and positive experience) with Picasa and embedding the album in the blog post. Not sure if it’ll work in WP or not. πŸ™‚

  13. I’m in love with an older woman. Her name is Internet. I’m quite thankful for our advances in the networking of information.

    Happy New Years in any case!

  14. I’m in love with an older woman. Her name is Internet. I’m quite thankful for our advances in the networking of information.

    Happy New Years in any case!

  15. @ Vivek: It took me a while to respond to your comment because I spoke with some people in my faculty, who are obviously management people but also come from countries with ancient European civilisations and are very well-versed in the ancient histories of their lands. They confirmed what my instinct tells me. Managers have existed for a long time – they may or may not have been called managers, but were definitely generalists whose job was to make many parts of an organisation, an army or a similar ‘machinery’ tick.

    I am told that the Greeks did not and still do not use the word ‘manager’ but have/ had a range of terms for ‘controller’. These terms are commensurate with the person’s position in the hierarchy. In the BC years, there is evidence that controllers were involved in the construction of many of their architectural marvels as well as the organisation and management of their state. The Greeks did not have a system that we may recognise as ‘communist’ in today’s terms and a free market meant that there was place for a range of skills including financial, people and project management.

    As for ‘professional managers’: you may (or may not) be aware that there has been for several year a low-key campaign to make MBA a professional qualification like CPA or CFA. But it has not gained momentum mainly because many MBAs recognise that management is less driven by ‘rules’ and more by ‘guidance’ and therefore it cannot become a ‘professional qualification’.

    Through your earlier comments, I am aware that you are not in favour of MBAs, capitalism etc. So I think there is a slim to no chance of agreement on this issue.

    @ Amit: Thanks. I am thinking more about uploading and clipping photos on WP. This is the key reason why I do not write ‘photo-posts’. The process is cumbersome and I like uploading thumbnails which I have found easier for photos taken with my Nokia N95 but not with my Canon Powershot.

    @ Chris: Thanks for your note. I am curious. What makes you think of the Internet as a ‘woman’? πŸ™‚

    @ Ruhi: Ah the technical adventurer! πŸ™‚ As I mentioned to Amit, I am keen to manage photos within WP. Plus I like to intersperse photos with text whereas on Slide, it will be a slide show. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

  16. @ Vivek: It took me a while to respond to your comment because I spoke with some people in my faculty, who are obviously management people but also come from countries with ancient European civilisations and are very well-versed in the ancient histories of their lands. They confirmed what my instinct tells me. Managers have existed for a long time – they may or may not have been called managers, but were definitely generalists whose job was to make many parts of an organisation, an army or a similar ‘machinery’ tick.

    I am told that the Greeks did not and still do not use the word ‘manager’ but have/ had a range of terms for ‘controller’. These terms are commensurate with the person’s position in the hierarchy. In the BC years, there is evidence that controllers were involved in the construction of many of their architectural marvels as well as the organisation and management of their state. The Greeks did not have a system that we may recognise as ‘communist’ in today’s terms and a free market meant that there was place for a range of skills including financial, people and project management.

    As for ‘professional managers’: you may (or may not) be aware that there has been for several year a low-key campaign to make MBA a professional qualification like CPA or CFA. But it has not gained momentum mainly because many MBAs recognise that management is less driven by ‘rules’ and more by ‘guidance’ and therefore it cannot become a ‘professional qualification’.

    Through your earlier comments, I am aware that you are not in favour of MBAs, capitalism etc. So I think there is a slim to no chance of agreement on this issue.

    @ Amit: Thanks. I am thinking more about uploading and clipping photos on WP. This is the key reason why I do not write ‘photo-posts’. The process is cumbersome and I like uploading thumbnails which I have found easier for photos taken with my Nokia N95 but not with my Canon Powershot.

    @ Chris: Thanks for your note. I am curious. What makes you think of the Internet as a ‘woman’? πŸ™‚

    @ Ruhi: Ah the technical adventurer! πŸ™‚ As I mentioned to Amit, I am keen to manage photos within WP. Plus I like to intersperse photos with text whereas on Slide, it will be a slide show. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

  17. Shefaly,

    //Through your earlier comments, I am aware that you are not in favour of MBAs, capitalism etc. So I think there is a slim to no chance of agreement on this issue.//

    WRONG! I admit I did suppress (Knowledge Management πŸ™‚ Γ  la mode Orwell) my belief that, just as engineers “in one form or another” have been around since ages, so also have been managers in one form or another. And I don’t question the importance of their contributions either. What gets my gall is

    1. the present-day attitude that MBAs are descended from heaven whereas most others are mere earthlings.

    2. the brain drain of talented people from other, highly creative and challenging fields into management.

    3. the MBA obsession with deliberately obfuscatory jargon to express the most simple ideas (I do not deny that this also afflicts some other disciplines, but managers seem to take the cake).

    4. (my belief, open to debate) management is more about manipulation (especially of people) than about creativity.

    Regarding Capitalism, too, it is PREDATORY Capitalism that I disfavour, and it disturbs me that a lot of people find nothing wrong with it (“survival of the fittest”; “so be it”; etc). Unfortunately I find predation and exploitation of the weak becoming the overarching driving force of present-day capitalism, whatever be the saccharoidal euphemisms actually used to describe it.

    The other thing that gets my goat is the attitude “if you are anti-capitalist you must be a Communist”, and of course the only correct way to deal with Communists is the way the late Senator McCarthy did (or tried to). Come on! Communism emerged from Capitalism. The main difference between the two philosophies, as I understand it, concerns who controls the means of production. The rest of the argument is built around this fundamental premise. Again, I am open to debate and enlightenment.

    To conclude, there is more than a slim chance for us to agree, as long as the basis of dialogue is seriously academic, (I trust you are not averse to that!) educative rather than doctrinaire, and not half-baked “knowledge” derived from tabloid journalism translated into intransigent dogma.

  18. Shefaly,

    //Through your earlier comments, I am aware that you are not in favour of MBAs, capitalism etc. So I think there is a slim to no chance of agreement on this issue.//

    WRONG! I admit I did suppress (Knowledge Management πŸ™‚ Γ  la mode Orwell) my belief that, just as engineers “in one form or another” have been around since ages, so also have been managers in one form or another. And I don’t question the importance of their contributions either. What gets my gall is

    1. the present-day attitude that MBAs are descended from heaven whereas most others are mere earthlings.

    2. the brain drain of talented people from other, highly creative and challenging fields into management.

    3. the MBA obsession with deliberately obfuscatory jargon to express the most simple ideas (I do not deny that this also afflicts some other disciplines, but managers seem to take the cake).

    4. (my belief, open to debate) management is more about manipulation (especially of people) than about creativity.

    Regarding Capitalism, too, it is PREDATORY Capitalism that I disfavour, and it disturbs me that a lot of people find nothing wrong with it (“survival of the fittest”; “so be it”; etc). Unfortunately I find predation and exploitation of the weak becoming the overarching driving force of present-day capitalism, whatever be the saccharoidal euphemisms actually used to describe it.

    The other thing that gets my goat is the attitude “if you are anti-capitalist you must be a Communist”, and of course the only correct way to deal with Communists is the way the late Senator McCarthy did (or tried to). Come on! Communism emerged from Capitalism. The main difference between the two philosophies, as I understand it, concerns who controls the means of production. The rest of the argument is built around this fundamental premise. Again, I am open to debate and enlightenment.

    To conclude, there is more than a slim chance for us to agree, as long as the basis of dialogue is seriously academic, (I trust you are not averse to that!) educative rather than doctrinaire, and not half-baked “knowledge” derived from tabloid journalism translated into intransigent dogma.

  19. PS: I do realise and acknowledge that a lot of the “j’accuse” tone of my post above can work the other way too! πŸ™‚

  20. PS: I do realise and acknowledge that a lot of the “j’accuse” tone of my post above can work the other way too! πŸ™‚

  21. Shefaly:

    Our exchange above got me thinking in a more detached way. Have you read Kafka’s short story of 1917, “The Great Wall of China” (in German, “Beim Bau der Chinesischen Mauer”)?

    I don’t expect professional managers to agree with me, but it is (without the author intending it to be) the most persuasive endorsement I have read have read of the discipline of Management. The English text is available online at http://www.mala.bc.ca/~Johnstoi/kafka/greatwallofchina.htm.

  22. Shefaly:

    Our exchange above got me thinking in a more detached way. Have you read Kafka’s short story of 1917, “The Great Wall of China” (in German, “Beim Bau der Chinesischen Mauer”)?

    I don’t expect professional managers to agree with me, but it is (without the author intending it to be) the most persuasive endorsement I have read have read of the discipline of Management. The English text is available online at http://www.mala.bc.ca/~Johnstoi/kafka/greatwallofchina.htm.

  23. the MBA obsession with deliberately obfuscatory jargon to express the most simple ideas (I do not deny that this also afflicts some other disciplines, but managers seem to take the cake)

    Vivek, yes!! I call it TLA – Three Letter Acronym. πŸ˜€ (though TLAS – Syndrome – would probably be more fitting)
    It’s my observation that many of the acronyms (in computers, some in management) exhibit TLA property.

  24. the MBA obsession with deliberately obfuscatory jargon to express the most simple ideas (I do not deny that this also afflicts some other disciplines, but managers seem to take the cake)

    Vivek, yes!! I call it TLA – Three Letter Acronym. πŸ˜€ (though TLAS – Syndrome – would probably be more fitting)
    It’s my observation that many of the acronyms (in computers, some in management) exhibit TLA property.

  25. Shefaly,

    What exactly do you mean by “intersperse photo with text”? Do you want to write something on pictures or do you want to have a regular post with pics lined one after the other and a short description regarding each pic, aligned to its left or right?

    If it’s the latter, then I would highly recommend using the Flock Browser and using their upload tool to Upload all your pictures at one go to Flickr or Photobucket. Then you can open the media bar of the browser (a small button in the shape of a camera) and scroll to the left or right and choose your picture, click on it, directly get the image URL and paste it to your post. It’s much faster and I’ve used it many times. Unless, you don’t want to download a new browser. πŸ™‚ It’s built on Mozilla Firefox and I highly recommend it. Flock is a big boon for bloggers and social networkers.

  26. Shefaly,

    What exactly do you mean by “intersperse photo with text”? Do you want to write something on pictures or do you want to have a regular post with pics lined one after the other and a short description regarding each pic, aligned to its left or right?

    If it’s the latter, then I would highly recommend using the Flock Browser and using their upload tool to Upload all your pictures at one go to Flickr or Photobucket. Then you can open the media bar of the browser (a small button in the shape of a camera) and scroll to the left or right and choose your picture, click on it, directly get the image URL and paste it to your post. It’s much faster and I’ve used it many times. Unless, you don’t want to download a new browser. πŸ™‚ It’s built on Mozilla Firefox and I highly recommend it. Flock is a big boon for bloggers and social networkers.

  27. @ Vivek: Thanks for your notes.

    Everything you say can be applied to any professional field, not just management.

    Whether MBAs are descended from heaven or not is a matter of perception. I daresay it is also a matter of the self-esteem of those around them to some extent. I am not, for instance, intimidated by pretty women or very tall people, but many other petite and/ or plain people are. And like in all professions, some MBAs are more capable than others; some focus more on money than others; some focus more on outcomes than others. So this is really a battle of perceptions more than anything else. It is also fashionable to criticise MBAs willy nilly so is it any surprise that most MBAs do not care to engage with non-MBAs? (Ruhi’s blog had an interesting discussion on the issue some time back.)

    Every profession has its shorthand which appears obfuscatory to outsiders. For instance, when I was in the US recently, my family – doctors – throw about terms such as MI and ‘decompensate’ in ordinary conversations. Through exposure their under-10 kids understand what the terms mean, but not many others may. I have noticed the same with economists, bankers and accountants. I do not think there is any consensus on this issue as I wrote in an earlier post (Lost in Translation)

    Management really is about getting the most out of people. Sure, everyone can choose to be the brick-layer, but someone needs to remember that they are building a cathedral; yet another needs to order bricks; someone else needs to order the mortar; another person may have to make sure people get paid on time and so on. Unbridled creativity is more likely to be wasted and aimless if a clear goal is to be pursued. Those who do not like to be managed by others can always go somewhere else. That is a great advantage of a free market. πŸ˜‰

    In one of your remarks, you appear to be confusing advertising with management broadly. Creativity is a tool which can be used either way. It is debatable where persuasion ends and manipulation begins.

    Having recently dealt with architects and builders (perhaps related to your trade), I can say that all the above apply to them too. I am, unfortunately for them, a well-informed consumer, who does research and refuses to take crap.

    On your other note, since I live in a welfare state at the moment, the concept primarily driven by inclusive/ socialistic views, I can say with some confidence that it does not do a lot to further the cause of societal advancement as a whole. Even when ‘predatory capitalism’ is not the leading theme, some fall by the wayside, some survive. That is life. Equality of opportunity? Yes. Equality of sharing in the booty of success? Er, NO.

    Thanks for the book link! I have not read it. Yet. Interesting to note however that Kafka should write something like that.

    @ Amit: It may surprise you but TLAs are the preserve of the industry, mainly IT industry, not of MBAs. For every management related TLA one can cite, I can cite at least 5-7 IT industry TLAs as well as FLAs (four letter) and MLAs (many letter) πŸ˜›

    For every VFM, there is a IP, SEO/ TCO, RTFM (unofficial of course), TCP/ IP and PCMCIA…

    @ Ruhi: If you have seen any of my older posts with pictures, I write the copy, insert the photo, add a title to photo, then write more copy. I was using Flock late 2006 or early 2007, but then for some reason I stopped using it. It sounds like I should resume using it. Thanks for the tips and advice. πŸ™‚

  28. @ Vivek: Thanks for your notes.

    Everything you say can be applied to any professional field, not just management.

    Whether MBAs are descended from heaven or not is a matter of perception. I daresay it is also a matter of the self-esteem of those around them to some extent. I am not, for instance, intimidated by pretty women or very tall people, but many other petite and/ or plain people are. And like in all professions, some MBAs are more capable than others; some focus more on money than others; some focus more on outcomes than others. So this is really a battle of perceptions more than anything else. It is also fashionable to criticise MBAs willy nilly so is it any surprise that most MBAs do not care to engage with non-MBAs? (Ruhi’s blog had an interesting discussion on the issue some time back.)

    Every profession has its shorthand which appears obfuscatory to outsiders. For instance, when I was in the US recently, my family – doctors – throw about terms such as MI and ‘decompensate’ in ordinary conversations. Through exposure their under-10 kids understand what the terms mean, but not many others may. I have noticed the same with economists, bankers and accountants. I do not think there is any consensus on this issue as I wrote in an earlier post (Lost in Translation)

    Management really is about getting the most out of people. Sure, everyone can choose to be the brick-layer, but someone needs to remember that they are building a cathedral; yet another needs to order bricks; someone else needs to order the mortar; another person may have to make sure people get paid on time and so on. Unbridled creativity is more likely to be wasted and aimless if a clear goal is to be pursued. Those who do not like to be managed by others can always go somewhere else. That is a great advantage of a free market. πŸ˜‰

    In one of your remarks, you appear to be confusing advertising with management broadly. Creativity is a tool which can be used either way. It is debatable where persuasion ends and manipulation begins.

    Having recently dealt with architects and builders (perhaps related to your trade), I can say that all the above apply to them too. I am, unfortunately for them, a well-informed consumer, who does research and refuses to take crap.

    On your other note, since I live in a welfare state at the moment, the concept primarily driven by inclusive/ socialistic views, I can say with some confidence that it does not do a lot to further the cause of societal advancement as a whole. Even when ‘predatory capitalism’ is not the leading theme, some fall by the wayside, some survive. That is life. Equality of opportunity? Yes. Equality of sharing in the booty of success? Er, NO.

    Thanks for the book link! I have not read it. Yet. Interesting to note however that Kafka should write something like that.

    @ Amit: It may surprise you but TLAs are the preserve of the industry, mainly IT industry, not of MBAs. For every management related TLA one can cite, I can cite at least 5-7 IT industry TLAs as well as FLAs (four letter) and MLAs (many letter) πŸ˜›

    For every VFM, there is a IP, SEO/ TCO, RTFM (unofficial of course), TCP/ IP and PCMCIA…

    @ Ruhi: If you have seen any of my older posts with pictures, I write the copy, insert the photo, add a title to photo, then write more copy. I was using Flock late 2006 or early 2007, but then for some reason I stopped using it. It sounds like I should resume using it. Thanks for the tips and advice. πŸ™‚

  29. It’s out of its beta phase now. So, I would presume that it’s more stable and quite safe. I took a look at your older posts- Flock should be able to do a good job. πŸ™‚ You can sign into all your blog/social networking related accounts in the sidebar.

  30. It’s out of its beta phase now. So, I would presume that it’s more stable and quite safe. I took a look at your older posts- Flock should be able to do a good job. πŸ™‚ You can sign into all your blog/social networking related accounts in the sidebar.

  31. Shefaly,

    I concede many of your points. Indeed, if you closely read all the qualifiers in my notes, you will agree that I have already done so, though perhaps not in so many words.

    On the subject of predatory capitalism, let us agree to continue to disagree. I am not learned enough to debate the subject in academically elegant and convincing language.

    Regarding the Kafka story (it’s not a book) what I said about it is (as I have already indicated) MY interpretation of it. You may or may not agree. Still, it is a good read, and a refreshing change from “The Trial”, “The Castle” or “Metamorphosis” — the literary purist may argue that it is not “Kafkaesque” enough.

  32. Shefaly,

    I concede many of your points. Indeed, if you closely read all the qualifiers in my notes, you will agree that I have already done so, though perhaps not in so many words.

    On the subject of predatory capitalism, let us agree to continue to disagree. I am not learned enough to debate the subject in academically elegant and convincing language.

    Regarding the Kafka story (it’s not a book) what I said about it is (as I have already indicated) MY interpretation of it. You may or may not agree. Still, it is a good read, and a refreshing change from “The Trial”, “The Castle” or “Metamorphosis” — the literary purist may argue that it is not “Kafkaesque” enough.

What do YOU think?